Airliners.net behind the scenes

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Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

Let me give you some background on recent happenings at airliners.net.

Unfortunately Julien’s post on airliners photography forum was deleted by anet’s community Manager himself, although the post itself just stuck to the facts and didn’t give any background story on the recent happenings. Obviously the aim to hide everything is quite strong. Not a particular clever move as a lot of people had already seen it. If you delete it then it is clear you do not have a clear conscience.

Let me explain the story a bit better here. To make it clear: No anet team member (including us) ever signed a confidentially statement or anything similar. This story is not made up, there is plenty of proof in terms of saved mails, screening log screenshots and so on. No one can say this didn’t / doesn’t happen.

What happened recently?
Kas van Zonneveld and Miguel Alia were fired. Julien Klein was told that he would be downgraded back to a screener in training for 4 months and afterwards be a screener on probation for another several months. Julien immediately decided to leave after this was announced. Lars Hentschel decided to leave the team in the wake of these happenings as well. Anet’s community manager tries to hide that in keeping him on the official list.

What led to this?
The final straw was an openly expressed disagreement by the three mentioned at the beginning over the acceptance of heavily overedited shots of an Israeli uploader (see other threads here) by PaulMcC himself. These shots were accepted totally out of order and despite obvious overediting. How should the team generally reject overedited shots when on the other hand such shots are just accepted in an (desperate) attempt to make someone coming back by just accepting everything of him?

Before there have been similar discussions about an (in) famous Singaporean Screener and a newly promoted Hungarian head screener. The first guy is just there for himself, he uploads more shots than he screens and is only there in order to profit from the “3 Screener rule”. What is the three screener rule? It basically says that in order for any screener shot to be rejected it basically needs to be seen and confirmed by at least 3 screeners. So let’s be fair: Most screeners are rather critical of that guy’s often subpar quality shots. But if two people say it’s blurry and on third place comes his buddy (yes the newly promoted head screener) that shot gets in. Otherwise for sure the great Community Manager is also regularly picking out and accepting shots out of order and despite issues of his Singaporean friend. If there was a shot posted anywhere asking “How could this been accepted”, you can be sure PaulMcC accepted it himself. There were several cases in the last months where as a crew member you could not even respond anymore, because it is obviously favoritism and nothing else. He also says “I will never reject a screeners shot”. Search the mistake, given that some are known to upload blurry shots. And this is really no secret at all. And yes the Sia screener recently admitted (after his 3 opponents have left) that he is actually not having / using any decent screen to view / screen the shots. This does not even need a comment. But good luck to your photos!

Let’s get back to the newly promoted head screener, what is he doing?
Well other than accepting every screeners shots (and his buddies – often out of order as well, he rarely screens the shots that are first in the queue) he is rejecting all shots of people whom he has a grudge against (again for whatever reasons). Who is affected? Mehrad Watson, Matteo Lamberts, Maximilian Kramer, Lance C Broad, Hector Riviera Valentin – amongst others. Also a staggering 90% of all warnings / bans from anet are issued by him. Often for minor stuff “as not enough change from previous rejection” – what is enough? Again how can that be? This is easily visible to every team member. People tried to fight that very strongly, but lost out. Good luck for your shots now and pay attention to not get banned in the blink of an eye!

Not the first time this is happening. An Australian screener who has left the team before was rejecting all shots from people that would promote their shots on reddit and on certain Facebook aviation groups (coincidentally some of the guys named before). Everyone knew it and people involved here tried to fight it, but the man who considers himself to be a “great manager” didn’t feel the need to take actions. Several forum members here were affected and needless to say above all the guy himself was doing the most promotion. I can only guess for his motivations, but apparently he wanted to have the limelight for his own.
If the guy hadn’t left on his own, he would be still doing this on a daily basis, but now it’s just others doing it and have even more power to do so.

Let me also clarify one point: The anet Facebook page is run by Mr. McC and no one else (one can only laugh when people on facebook address the anet social media “Team” - LOL) . Guess why so many shots of his Singaporean fanboy Number One (never fails to mention what a great guy the Community Manager is) get regularly posted. Guess why shots that fall under the “Should never been accepted” category get regularly promoted.

Otherwise let’s be clear: Quite some screeners are doing a really good job and try to stay as fair as they can. Yet these guys mentioned before do whatever they want and everyone knows it. Worse the Community Manager even seems to prefer this than having to deal with people that openly express their opinions.

Yet guys who cared and have a clear conscience and for whom fairness and equality are strong values were told to leave. Anet is losing now 65.000+ screenings a year, forum help and most critical people that believed that screener shots should be screened the same or even with higher standards as they should be examples (good ones, not bad ones) . Current leaders think rules should be less strict for screeners.

The new screening team sees great things ahead of them (as a response to the dismissal mail from Mr. McCarthy). In terms of acceptances /promotions for their own shots this is certainly true! And by the way, thanks for the massive support / appreciation guys!

As a final word: There's more to this than the above mentioned points, but I just stuck to those things where there are (more than) enough facts / proof.
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

For the past years I’ve been a member of the Airliners.net screening team. First as a photo screener, later as a head screener. As a photo screener, you mostly screen photos. As a head screener, so much more is involved. To a certain extent some things apply to both roles, but now you are leading a team, outlining the standards, processing appeals, reviewing warnings/bans, being in contact with several users about their worries and questions. A lot of it is behind the scenes work, between you and them. Balancing the sometimes difficult border between keeping people happy and upholding the site standards. Not to mention the many things I did that weren’t visible to anyone else.

I went above and beyond to try and bring the site up to the standard that it should be. Spending countless hours of my free time to give back to the site that I loved deeply. I’ve been around for a long time and the love doesn’t go away easily.

On Wednesday February 12, 2020 this all changed without warning or heads-up. I noticed that my Slack account (used to notify the developers of troubles with the site) wasn’t working anymore. I had automated E-mails that my account was deleted. When asking the community manager, he confirmed that my access was revoked. He did not answer my question about why and who decided this.

Weird, as only 2 days before I was very actively working with a developer to reproduce the upload bug where smaller sizes get blown up to match the size of the newly uploaded photo (if the new photo was larger).

Not long after, I noticed that my Airliners.net E-mail account was deactivated. I confronted the community manager again and the only reply was that I should check my personal E-mail. I had an E-mail from him, stating what had happened:
Hello X,

I would like to thank you for the time you volunteered to the Airliners.net community and screening crew. It is greatly appreciated.

Your position has been reviewed and after a comprehensive evaluation it has been decided that your services are no longer required.

This decision was not taken lightly and only made recently. With that said your position as a crew member is always being monitored as is any of the crew.

You are not the only one who will be receiving an email like this from me today. X will also receive one. Y, while away, will have his account changed to that of screener in training until June 30 on probation. After then, he will again be a full screener on probation for a period of time.

Head Screener replacements for you and X are in place.

Decisions like this are not taken easily and are the result of a sequence of events, not one. They are made for the benefit of the entire screening crew and overall community that make up the site that is Airliners.net.

Continual communication with the screening crew and members of the community over the last six months and longer has led to this. We listen to what is said by those who reach out to us. It has reached a point where it can't be ignored. The best interests of the overall community that is Airliners.net need to be served.

You have a X account and you will receive another email outlining some of the reasons as to why these decisions are taking effect. But in short most of your activities do not serve the majority of the crew and community for the better.

Yours sincerely

Z
Community Manager
Airliners.net
I was stumped. No warning or heads-up, this was the thanks I got for years of hard work and service for the site. Everything I ever did for Airliners.net was in the best interest of the community and crew. It hurts to be put into this corner where the opposite is said.

After reading it twice, I realized another HS was removed and a screener was demoted to ‘in-training’. The latter, upon learning this, naturally quit himself (who wouldn’t?).

I also find it odd that I will get another E-mail, specifying exactly why this was done. Since the community manager says it was a decision made over a prolonged period of time and ‘not taken lightly’, surely the specific examples/reasons for getting booted from the team should already be known. Then why does it take this long to inform me of them? And which crew members/community members were consulted in this matter? At the time of posting this (1,5 weeks later), I still have not received that follow-up E-mail.

The results from what has happened are clear to me.
  • - The loss of 3 crew members who were active and cared a great deal about the site. Who were active on the forum. No-one to take their place. Not yes-men, but people who had their own mind and were vocal in what was needed/should be done.

    - The loss of very knowledgeable people. I would say (from what I’ve noticed over the past few years) that I likely know the site better than 99% of crew members. Especially because since the relaunch I’ve been identifying and troubleshooting problems and bugs more than anyone else.

    - The loss of 60.000+ screenings on a yearly basis. As a comparison; the week before this all happened (early February 2020), we crunched some numbers. The average annual amount of photos screened per screener was way less than 10.000 per year. You do the math.

    - A lot of confused minds.

    - Other (head) screeners quitting or rethinking their position (despite possible claims that it’s unrelated). In some case, people have already left, but the manager still has their account listed on the site. One can only guess as to why.

    - In the longer term; an increase in subpar quality images getting online and the database getting increasingly more corrupt. Incorrect/missing info not getting corrected and far less corrective quality control than was the case until now. The start of the decline is already noticeable unfortunately.
To everyone who sent me an E-mail on my Airliners.net account and has not received a reply, for obvious reasons, I have not replied and will not reply from that address anymore.

I do want to mention a few cases that have led up to being increasingly doubtful of the (head) screener role. Because of these doubts/noticeable conflict of values and personal life commitments I was already considering resigning. Being part of the team (especially as head screener), I noticed many things, also in screener behavior. The screening log is a great tool and does not lie. So much info can be obtained from it.

It started out with users reaching out to us due to harsh screening for their photos. The common factor was a specific screener. We have tried to put a stop to it several times and after many attempts, the screener eventually eased up a bit. But by this time the damage was already done. This screener has left the site out of own free will a while ago.

Second was a similar case, where a screener from Hungary was pulling a certain user’s photos from the queue ahead of time to screen them. This due to the perception that the photos would otherwise be improperly screened. This meant low quality photos getting accepted when they shouldn’t. It was very time consuming to correct these cases and naturally caused friction between me/us and the user, as he did not always understand. While I myself am in favor of sometimes bending the rules as long as the fallout is (estimated as) relatively minor, the above goes way beyond that.

In addition, he picks on certain users. From the screening log, it became clear that he was treating photographers from New York, Iran and Puerto Rico (and likely others) unfairly. In case of the user from Iran, at some point the screening log showed that out of the last 200 photos from this user that this screener screened, only 2 were accepted. This is an impossible statistic, considering that this user is not a total newbie to photography.

We sent the screener various E-mails about both things and it kept being ignored. E-mails from the other removed head screener were dismissed, as the screener did not acknowledge him as a head screener. At some point, he literally said “if you don’t like it, don’t watch”. The community manager was aware of all of this. I don’t know if he intervened, but if he did, it had no effect.

He is also very trigger happy in terms of warnings/bans and we have overturned several of his bans because they were too harsh for the circumstances.

Another headache case was a screener from Singapore. Initially he had left, but wanted to come back. At a certain point it became clear over a prolonged period of time that he was not screening much, yet uploading a significant amount of (marginal quality) photos. In the screening team, there is an unwritten rule that a screener photo should be seen by 3 screeners before being rejected. This screener made optimum use of that (being on the team, uploading but not screening much), which was a concern for us.

I believe in leading by example and that screener images should be photos of quality to look up to. We shared our concerns with the community manager, but not much changed. Eventually, I sent the screener a firm E-mail that enough was enough. After this, the relationship between him and me was non-existent and he did not respond to anything ever since. He wanted an apology, as he thought I called him s-hit. I did not, but I did call his photos s-hit (which I believe is the truth). And this does not only come from me; on the forum and a recent visit abroad, I’ve had to answer many questions regarding this screener. I was not always able, since I fully agreed with the one asking.

In the end, he sent an E-mail that he would be going on a ‘sabbatical’. We made sure that this also included the 3-screener perk, to avoid a very unfair balance. This was an acceptable solution for us. I have learned that when we got booted from the crew, this screener sent an E-mail just a few hours later, saying that his sabbatical was over and that he was looking for a new laptop to screen. Yes, he screens from a laptop… And way too coincidental to come back that same night we get kicked from the team.

Other antics from the latter 2 screeners involved reuploads. We have E-mailed both of them a number of times for a reupload of various photos. The Hungarian screener consistently disagreed and/or did not comply. The Singaporean screener was always ‘away’ and in a lot of cases a correction would take a long time. In an extreme case, he did not respond for weeks. For us, this means keeping track of the image, sending more notices, etc. In the end, the screener just simply said “just remove it, it’s run its course”. So much trouble and time wasted for nothing. That is typical for him.

It should be noted that actions do not get taken flying solo, but only after seeking consensus from the other head screeners. When we are in agreement, action is taken. This has been the case for all of the above and I have never acted solo on these important matters, even though I may have been the most outspoken one/the one to contact the user/screener.

But what probably sealed the deal was a bump-in with community manager. The manager was contacting photographers in an attempt to convince them to start uploading again. In itself a very good cause. However, not at all cost.

One of the first was this user who often uploads very overedited photos. He has quite a specific editing style and it involves vignetting, lots of shadow/highlight tool usage, lots of clarity and gradient tool usage (or similar). All of that is not how we want them and this is also mentioned in the upload guidelines. Nevertheless, the manager accepted the photos. And not for the first time.
At some point, the site experienced a nasty bug and screener images were used extensively to ‘test’ by the manager. Amongst those photos were examples from the Singaporean screener. Poor photos, but they still got added. It took a lot of E-mails and complaining for this to stop.

This sets a bad example towards all other photographers and of course people will question the acceptances. Not to mention Airliners.net gets a bad reputation. The manager consistently ignores the quality standards, making it harder for us to do our jobs. Not to mention that it makes it impossible for us to defend the actions/screener/images any longer.

The 3 of us questioned the acceptances of the overedited photos and it became clear that there was a huge conflict of opinion. The manager said (and I quote):
It is acceptable and will not be changed” and
The images more than meet our selection criteria and the photographer really does suit Airliners.net. There is a substantial disconnect between what is said here and what the community come here to appreciate and enjoy."

Yes, there is a clear disconnect between the manager and the entire 5-man head screeners team, who all thought the images are overedited. Because as mentioned before, such issues are consulted amongst the entire head screener group. 5 seasoned photographers vs. a manager with an average (at best) eye for photos. It’s clear that our departure was for ulterior motives and not based on what we are accused of ("most of your activities do not serve the majority of the crew and community for the better.").

And now?
The Hungarian screener has been promoted to head screener after our involuntary departure. He is not active on the forum and likes to go lone wolf on things. Great qualities for a head screener apparently.

The Singaporean screener got a semi-promotion to priority screener a week after our departure. A screener whose photos are often marginal and someone who performs subpar in terms of providing adequate info. Just recently he uploaded a Honda jet photo from the Singapore airshow with the airline missing. This still hasn’t been corrected at the time of this post. And definitely not for the first time. How on earth can someone like that function as a priority screener? Or even a regular screener for that matter. There are much more suitable candidates to be picked before you arrive at this guy. New aircraft with correct info are vital for the database quality and these developments make me fear a severe lack of quality in the future.

The newly promoted Hungarian screener did not screen much since late December, which we found odd as he used to be a volume screener (screening lots of images). After we got booted, he became much more active again. So did the screener from Singapore.

Combined with all the above knowledge, to me there is little doubt that the Singaporean and Hungarian screener have been at the center of this and have conspired with the community manager. Both of them have often complained about screener images getting judged too harshly, even though they weren’t. It’s clear that the community manager chose their side. It also leads me to believe dirty behind-the-scenes politics are/have been going on and that Airliners.net now has their yes-men back.

The only big upside is that I now have peace of mind, away from this toxic environment. I stood by what I believe in and have no regrets. If I had to do it again I would do everything exactly the same.
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Guest

Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

Oh wow. First of all sorry to hear what happened to you guys. This sounds really bad.

Everything you describe is otherwise just the confirmation of what I suspected to happen there lately. Surely not to that (somewhat shocking) extent though!
Andrew Hunt's privileges were very obvious and as one can see there were numerous threads / postings about that before. That guy is so ridiculous, thinks he is well appreciated in the aviation photography community when the contrary is the case. And no one should come with the popularity argument, everybody can see how "Aviasian Passion " :lol: strongly promotes his shots. We all know that with the right social media actions you could make anything popular, even these subar shots.

That community Manager was always suspicous to me. I mean he shoots in clear daytime with ISO800 / 1/8000s on a not really up-to-date crop canon. As apparently he interferes with photos as well, shouldn't he have a basic knowledge? Apparently he has none. But the community he manages gets ever smaller and with these actions he accelerated that, so that even the ultra-naive ones will realise what is happening now. And the way he handles the social media accounts could not be worse. If they hire any 15 year old trainee, he could do better.

I can tell for myself that this site won't see another upload from myself. I don't trust the current crew at all. No need to tell why.

Thanks for sharing that with us!
I don't think you guys got anything to regret though. The site lives in the past, it still looks like 1998 an while their innercore seems to want that the general public is less keen on such an old-fashioned site. Ever talked with a younger spotter about airliners? If you lucky enough they have heard of it.
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Cary
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Cary »

Really sorry to hear about this, guys. It's really their loss to be without you. I wish they would realize that it's not a lack of having popular photographers that's causing the ship to sink. It's having double standards, as was mentioned above, and alienating their regular uploaders that's the big problem. And getting rid of the staff members that point out the double standards and biases might temporarily relieve some friction, but ultimately will lead to a failing product. Every organization should be made up of a wide variety of people. Some with strong personalities, some with weaker personalities. Some who go with the flow and some who challenge decisions. Getting rid of the people who question ideas does nothing to correct the underlying issues. A.net will fill your positions with warm bodies, but the quality of work will no doubt go down. I can't envision anyone being as helpful, unbiased and patient as Kas was in the forums, for example.

Take this time to enjoy the free time you now have without having to screen photos or moderate posts. I consider my free time to be extremely valuable to me, so for those of you who devoted your free time for no pay and a thankless job, I think you're better off now :) Thanks for attempting to make A.net better for aviation photographers as a whole and not just a privileged few. Welcoming back all photographers and treating everyone fairly and consistently would be what would help A.net get back to its glory days...not welcoming back a few well-known photographers and giving them different rules to play by.
AeroPX on Instagram - https://instagram.com/aeropxdotcom

View my photos: Airliners.net | JetPhotos.net | Flickr
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

Guest wrote: The final straw was an openly expressed disagreement by the three mentioned at the beginning over the acceptance of heavily overedited shots of an Israeli uploader (see other threads here) by PaulMcC himself. These shots were accepted totally out of order and despite obvious overediting. How should the team generally reject overedited shots when on the other hand such shots are just accepted in an (desperate) attempt to make someone coming back by just accepting everything of him?
He puts fake vignettes/gradients on virtually all his photos. Just look at his ATI page:
https://www.airteamimages.com/yochai_pid745.html

Image

How many of those don't have vignettes/gradients and/or the Nik Efex look? Or maybe Tel Aviv is just the foreboding moody dark cloud capital of the world. I mean, come on man:

https://www.airteamimages.com/boeing-74 ... 52361.html
https://www.airteamimages.com/airbus-a3 ... 50222.html

How many other photographers does A.net allow to do the same editing he does?
You will receive this rejection if your image is overedited or when incorrect editing has taken place. Usually this means that you have made too many changes/tweaks during the editing of your photo.

A couple of common occurances are:
- The use of gradients (often in the sky), which we don't allow.
- Overuse of the shadow/highlights tool (or similar). This results in a very flat looking photo with little shadows. The low contrast rejection is often given as well in such cases.
- Overuse of clarity, resulting in an unnatural looking photo.

Deliberate attempts to alter the image, i.e. by digitally removing or adding objects, or by purposely changing certain items in the image. This is considered a serious offence on our site. Airliners.net does not tolerate ANY deliberate alteration of the image for the purpose of the removal of objects from the image, addition of objects to photographs, deliberate blurring of objects (to create an artificial depth of field) or faces, or changing the registration or even entire color schemes. This type of editing can result in a ban from the site.

Editing of images should be limited to rotating to correct horizontals and verticals, cropping, color and level corrections, and some careful sharpening. Cloning should only be used to remove minor imperfections such as dust marks and scratches.

In addition, (stitched) panoramas, stacks and compositions are not accepted. HDR photos may be acceptable, as long as the outcome looks natural. This means no weird halos, no unnaturally light shadows, no ghosts (which can result from stacking multiple exposures), etc. It is up to screener discretion whether a HDR-like photo gets added. Similar-looking photos may receive different screening results.
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

Exactly. But the manager says they are acceptable, because they get a high view count so 'it's what the people want to see'.
Hello All,

I find this to be very interesting both in terms of what is said about the quality of these two images and how a contributing photographer to the site for around 10 years is viewed at this level. You have made it clear that both images are either "borderline" or in need of an "edit". In relation to the photographer "his editing style doesn't really suit A.net". I would like to take this opportunity to address both the images in question, the contributing photographer and an observation as to how these images were brought to my attention..

The first image is a United 777 as linked below;

https://www.airliners.net/photo/United- ... ER/5881401

13,500 views. The image was not hit pumped or promoted on social media outlets by the photographer. That is a high amount of views indicating genuine, broad based, community acceptance of the image.
It made Top of the Day on its own merit. That is the second highest community achievement it can attain.
It made Photographers' Choice on its own merit. That is the highest community achievement it can attain.

The community that makes this site up spoke in the way the site was designed to recognize and appreciate good photos when they see one. They spoke in one voice and rewarded it for what they deem a good photo. Here, it "too much and should be replaced by a better edit" and in regards to the photographer "his editing style does not suit A.net". No. The community spoke as one and rewarded a good image with their views, votes and comments. It is acceptable and will not be changed.

The second image is a El Al 787-9 as linked below,

https://www.airliners.net/photo/El-Al-I ... er/5880451

9,200 views. The image was again not hit pumped or promoted on social media outlets by the photographer. This is another high amount of views indicating genuine, broad based, community acceptance of the image.
It made Top of the Day on its own merit the exact same way the other one did as mentioned above.
It made Photographers' Choice on its own merit the exact same way the other one did as mentioned above.

I see no need to repeat the community acceptance it received as mentioned above. It is the exact same as what I noted for the other one. This one is also acceptable and not "borderline" as seen here.

The contributing photographer has been uploading for around 10 years or so. I spoke with him and he said he did not have enough time to upload as much as he would like last year. Yes, rejections were up and personals help. But a long time uploader has a break and is talked into again uploading. He meets broad based community recognition for his efforts. It is what all photographers strive for and aim to achieve at Airliners.net. The community rewarded him the way the site is set up to do so. Yet here. "borderline", "edit" and "his editing style doesn't really suit A.net". No.

The images more than meet our selection criteria and the photographer really does suit Airliners.net. There is a substantial disconnect between what is said here and what the community come here to appreciate and enjoy.

Finally I do not appreciate the way these images were brought to my attention after I screened them. It will not happen again. If a general screener comes to me 12 hours later and says complaints are received, no. He comes here, to the Head Screeners. I asked for the complaints to address them and none were forthcoming. For 11 years I have been here and not once in that time have I seen or experienced anything like how notifying me to address "perceived" flaws was handled. There will be no repeat of this ever again. I will put a stop to it.

Kind regards

X
Community Manager
Airliners.net
To which one of us wrote:
Hi X,

This seems mostly aimed mostly at me. Little surprised about this E-mail and no idea what prompted it. The contrast between this and your previous reply is quite large.

I'm not going into the promotion of images in detail, but I will say that there is no way of knowing for sure. Maybe not on social media, but we can't trawl the whole internet to look where it may have been linked. So instead of claiming this is as fact, I will agree to a benefit of the doubt. I buy the rest of it.

Of course there is a difference how most users (=most non-photographers) see images. Let's take that United B773 as example. From their (=most users) perspective it is a great and dramatic photo. For photographers, the image is very overedited. The user has quite a specific editing style and involves vignetting, lots of shadow/highlight tool usage, lots of clarity and gradient tool usage (or similar). All of that is not how we want them and is also mentioned in the upload guidelines.

I still stand by what I said and am not going to repeat myself. Just because he is a long time uploader, it doesn't mean his photos can't be bad. His photos often get a pass, but the underlying issue remains. Just look at his history with 'editing', 'vignetting' and 'personal' rejections:
*long link to screening log*
It is acceptable and will not be changed.
Sorry, but I agree to disagree that it is acceptable.
There is a substantial disconnect between what is said here and what the community come here to appreciate and enjoy.
This has always been the case and no different now. That's why we have screeners and photo upload guidelines and screeners that we try to uphold. So everyone knows what to expect (photographers and non-photographers) and it doesn't evolve into a big mess/quality drop. Because that is what you will get if you were to let 'the community' make the decision on what's acceptable. May as well do away with the entire screening team and put photos up to a vote by the community to decide their fate.

Finally, I got contacted by a screener regarding the images and agreed with him that the photos are overedited. However, I did not tell him to contact you about it, so I don't know what you are talking about with 'how they were brought to attention'. I told him I would contact the user about a reupload and refrained from that when I saw your E-mail and asked you for it instead.

Regards,

Y
As mentioned earlier, I'm not seeing much quality control (anymore). The whole acceptance guide is useless now that it's clearly being ignored.
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Guest

Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

For the record, those 2 E-mails were the final exchanges before being kicked off the team.
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Guest

Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

Come on. That popular argument is sooo ridiculous. We all know how strongly Yochai promotes / advertises his shots. With that way you can generally make anything popular. I am sure the community would prefer of not having double standards.

But as it was said before, every quality control is lost now.

Don't tell me that that isn't flat and blurry
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Emirate ... /5896197/L
It even looks blurry on my mobile.

But of course Paul thought it is a worthy promotion. LOL.

It is really not anymore that a weird boys club of some weird buddies.
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Guest

Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

I actually find it quite ironic that while we as a crew unfortunately have no infos on who voted PC or who shots are promoted (and Paul confirmed that to me) but in thos cases he is sure that these shots made everything on their own merit??!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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Guest wrote:Exactly. But the manager says they are acceptable, because they get a high view count so 'it's what the people want to see'.

The first image is a United 777 as linked below;

https://www.airliners.net/photo/United- ... ER/5881401

13,500 views. The image was not hit pumped or promoted on social media outlets by the photographer. That is a high amount of views indicating genuine, broad based, community acceptance of the image.
It made Top of the Day on its own merit. That is the second highest community achievement it can attain.
It made Photographers' Choice on its own merit. That is the highest community achievement it can attain.
Someone should tell him that 13,500 views is nothing compared to 173,000:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Condor/ ... ER/5616791

or 63,000:
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-Sen ... 1N/5863857

Both not hit pumped or promoted on social media outlets by the photographer. I know this because I know everything. :lolno:
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

Let me add that as of today Gabor was demoted from a headscreener to a normal screener by the community manager.
Prove of good management and a initial careful choice.

He has been replaced by Fabrizio Berni. People might be surprised, but yeah a warm body was needed.

Look out who will be headscreener in some weeks time, the wheels are turning fast! Again shows how well managed the site is.
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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Please don’t tell me that they will bring Harris back as a HS??? Surely they are not that desperate?
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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Guest wrote:Please don’t tell me that they will bring Harris back as a HS??? Surely they are not that desperate?
Well they are very desperate, yes. Still this won't happen. MH left on his own, as he felt his shots were too harshly screened. Still the majority was relieved as there were a lot of complaints about him, internal and external. So while he screened a larger number of shots he did a lot of damage to the site by driving some well respected Photographers away from the site with his very personal screening. Often downplayed to "harsh screening" but in reality screening on names, nothing else.
And everybody there knows it. So I don't think the Community Manager would take him back, unless he wants to completley shut that thing down.
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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More drama at A.net? Looks like a well known photographer has deleted his photos?.
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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Guest wrote:More drama at A.net? Looks like a well known photographer has deleted his photos?.
From a quick search, looks like it's the Washington state based photorgapher. A few weeks ago there was a thread by him on the forum criticinzing the priority screening, claiming someone opened his shot from the queue and did not screen it, and this way the photo can't be screened by another screener for some time, while another photographer had his priority shot accepted before him. No need to say the thread was deleted. Can someone confirm if the bold part is indeed true?
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:More drama at A.net? Looks like a well known photographer has deleted his photos?.
From a quick search, looks like it's the Washington state based photorgapher. A few weeks ago there was a thread by him on the forum criticinzing the priority screening, claiming someone opened his shot from the queue and did not screen it, and this way the photo can't be screened by another screener for some time, while another photographer had his priority shot accepted before him. No need to say the thread was deleted. Can someone confirm if the bold part is indeed true?
I remember reading that thread, and yes, it looks like his photos are gone. He hasn't posted in the forums for more than a month either.
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

Post by Guest »

Sure, I took screenshots of it when it happened.

I removed my photos because I’m tired of the nonsense that Paul and his crew do on a regular basis. I had to ask for over a month to have my photos removed, then I was banned for 5 years because I “lied about the crew abusing me.”
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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You could be forgiven for thinking that Paul is trying to single handedly trying to shut down that website with his strange decisions and outright favouritism to half a dozen selected photographers.
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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Guest wrote:
Guest wrote:More drama at A.net? Looks like a well known photographer has deleted his photos?.
From a quick search, looks like it's the Washington state based photorgapher. A few weeks ago there was a thread by him on the forum criticinzing the priority screening, claiming someone opened his shot from the queue and did not screen it, and this way the photo can't be screened by another screener for some time, while another photographer had his priority shot accepted before him. No need to say the thread was deleted. Can someone confirm if the bold part is indeed true?
The bold part is true. If a photo is opened and no verdict is given, there is a window during which a photo becomes locked and no actions can be taken. IIRC it can be up to 30-45 mins before a photo is released again. This is atleast true until mid-February, before Paul decides to cut us loose (best thing to ever happen tbh).
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Re: Airliners.net behind the scenes

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Guest wrote:Sure, I took screenshots of it when it happened.

I removed my photos because I’m tired of the nonsense that Paul and his crew do on a regular basis. I had to ask for over a month to have my photos removed, then I was banned for 5 years because I “lied about the crew abusing me.”

Wait. Julien here....

haha, what has happened? Like really? You ask them to have you photos removed? And then they ban you? LOL. That hits people hard when they leave! :clap:


The Crew is abusing people. PERIOD. On a regular basis. PERIOD. The other photographer that profited from the actions for the Prio shot is Paul's buddy and got promoted Team leader when we were thrown out. Needless to say more.


Otherwise I saw the thread in question as well and yeah the unprofessional responses that crew members were giving totally confirms what I am thinking.

As the other person said, the best what could happen to us was to be thrown out of that thing.
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